Mobile GeForce RTX 5000: Nvidia denies missing ROPs, OEMs see it differently
Nvidia says that mobile GeForce RTX 5000s are not affected by the problem of missing ROPs. Notebook manufacturers tell us otherwise. And yet everyone is right.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 5080 fĂĽr Gaming-Notebooks
(Image: c't / mue)
Following our own research, we reported yesterday that the upcoming GeForce RTX 5000 series notebook GPUs are also affected by a known problem: Some mobile chips, like the desktop variants, have fewer raster operation piplines (ROPs) than their data sheets specify. This is an error that sometimes results in noticeable losses in 3D performance. It is deeply embedded in the respective silicon chip and cannot be rectified by a driver or firmware update, but only by replacing it.
Our report has caused an international stir. On the one hand because of our research and on the other hand because Nvidia made a statement to the US media during the night and apparently denied our report. We now also have the short statement:
"No further issues, all partners continue to perform checks as part of our standard testing procedure."
Meanwhile, we have checked again and stand by our statement that mobile GPUs of the GeForce RTX 5000 are also affected by the error. But: Although it may seem contradictory, our point of view and Nvidia's can be fully reconciled if you delve a little deeper into the matter.
Between the lines … and the letters …
Nvidia's statement says that there are "no further issues". This is true in the sense that the error of the missing ROPs is not new, but already known from the desktop variants. Chips for notebooks and desktop graphics cards come off the same production line; which variant a specific die becomes is only decided after production during what is known as binning. Here, parameters such as clock behavior, energy consumption and defects in individual components are determined and the chip is then thrown into the most suitable bin.
For this reason alone, it would be surprising if mobile chips had not initially slipped through the control grid when Nvidia's quality control did not yet have the problem on its radar. Nvidia has not yet officially announced any technical details about the error (and probably never will); the company speaks very generally of a production anomaly. Nevertheless, the error has been identified and has since been rectified, as Nvidia emphasized in a telephone call today.
We also do not deny that there are standard test procedures with which both individual components and fully assembled notebooks are checked in various stages before delivery. There are test procedures for this, some of which are defined by component manufacturers such as Nvidia and others by the manufacturer of the notebook in question.
In this case, after the ROP problem became known, Nvidia quickly defined another test, namely for missing ROPs. Several sources have confirmed this to us. According to reports, all chips supplied by Nvidia up to a certain point in time are affected – presumably until Nvidia became aware of the error. Notebooks equipped with these chips will now have to be tested again – all devices and not just randomly.
Important: We have been informed that the tests were not purely prophylactic. Notebooks whose GPUs had too few ROPs were actually identified and taken out of circulation. For desktop graphics cards, Nvidia speaks of an error rate of 0.5 percent. Figures we have received for new gaming notebooks are slightly higher, but of the same order of magnitude in terms of quality. Given the close technical relationship outlined above, we would honestly have been surprised if they were grossly different.
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Additional testing welcomed
Because it may have come across incorrectly in yesterday's news: We have nothing against Nvidia's additional test to identify faulty GPUs, in fact we welcome it. Sure, it means extra work for the notebook manufacturers, which they are anything but happy about. But the ROP problem can't be fixed otherwise. With the obligatory additional test, Nvidia ensures that first-time buyers who put several thousand euros on the table for a brand new gaming notebook don't get devices with a faulty GPU.
Part of the reason why the strategy of additional testing works here is the fact that the notebooks have not yet been shipped – unlike the faulty desktop graphics cards that have already arrived at customers. We do not know whether this is a lucky coincidence or whether the fine-tuning of the vBIOS has only just been carried out. Once again, it is not the fine-tuning itself that is unusual, but the extremely late date of completion.
(Image:Â c't / mue)
At CES, we saw timetables according to which test devices of new gaming notebooks should have been sent to selected press representatives in February under NDA conditions so that the test reports could have been published in March. The schedule is long outdated: even if systems were already in circulation, all tests would have to be carried out again with the vBIOS version that has only just been completed. Among other things, this specifies the clock rates for the respective notebook. These can change from version to version if something is still grinding in the gears. And this naturally has an impact on performance.
Nvidia works together with all notebook manufacturers in order to adapt GPU units individually to specific notebooks and their cooling systems. This is another reason why Nvidia does not specify any clock rates in the publicly available data sheets for the mobile GeForce RTX 5000, but does specify a very wide window of permissible power limits. In contrast to desktop graphics cards, it therefore depends more on what the respective notebook manufacturer implements.
Sales launch question mark
At the bottom of the linked website, Nvidia continues to talk about a sales launch of notebooks with GeForce RTX 5000 in the current month of March. Whether this will actually work out is questionable. However, it is certainly not only due to the ROP add-on test or vBIOS delivery date. Unlike desktop graphics cards, notebooks have to be localized: In this country, you need a German keyboard in the case and a power supply with a so-called Schuko plug in the box. Depending on the region, the same notebook can therefore appear a little earlier or later; experience has shown that large uniform markets such as North America or China are always a little quicker than Europe, which is highly fragmented in terms of localization.
The statement made yesterday that gaming notebooks could arrive in April or May refers to information from German press releases, provided that a manufacturer has already been so specific there (or in discussions with us). This should be kept in mind, as pre-sales in Germany and the rest of the world started at the end of February – often without a binding delivery date.
Either way, as soon as it starts, it certainly doesn't hurt to run a utility program such as GPU-Z or CPU-Z on your new purchase. They recognize the correct number of ROPS for Nvidia's GPUs – CPU-Z even shows a warning if it reads too few.
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